I like that show where they solve all the murd3rs ([info]cedarlibrarian) wrote,
@ 2008-03-13 13:30:00
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Current mood: cranky
Entry tags:i work with crazy people, rants, ya

Adult authors in the YA sandbox, Part I: Get With the Program
I am on quite the rampage lately.

This just makes me boggle. Yes, I know it's old for a blog post, but I just saw it so here I am. It damn near made my head explode.

You know, I don't even write original fiction, and I know that most of it requires some degree of research. If I write a book that's set in a hospital, I'm going to visit hospitals. If I'm writing a novel in which the main character extols the virtues of In-N-Out Burger, I'm not going to set it in New Jersey. And one would think that if I wanted to write an urban fantasy novel, I'd read some urban fantasy and get a picture of the genre. Regarding this blogger's recent reading of YA, I'm shocked by the "I'm shocked" factor, too. Maybe that's my emotionally disconnected librarian talking, but the stuff of YA novels does not faze me. It all stems from SOME reality. Yes, it's easy to make smaller truths into huge issues in a book, or on TV, or in a movie, but I really think that's okay. That's the point of art, isn't it, to make us think differently?

This passage: Now, I was not expecting Nancy Drew. But... surely this sort of behavior isn't very common? Is it something you'd want your ten-year-old reading? (YA is supposedly for 12-15-year-olds, but in fact younger kids who are good readers consume most of it.)

just shows ignorance.

1. No, if it were common behavior the book would be really boring. Who wants to read books where common behavior happens?

2. I've never met anyone who recommended Valiant to a ten-year-old. If you have, please send them my way so I can smack them one.

3. Younger kids who are good readers consume most YA? First, define "younger." Second, where did this statistic come from? It's not like Nielsen Bookscan asks you for your age when you buy a book. I can only speak for the libraries I've worked in, of course, but I found that most of the people checking out books from the YA section are, um, teens.

4. YA is supposedly for 12-15-year-olds? Geez, you better tell YALSA, then, because their "Ages 12-18" service plan is all wrong and most of the books on BBYA are too old. Also, please send that memo to John Green, M.T. Anderson, Nancy Werlin, Robert Lipsyte, Chris Lynch, Sonya Hartnett, and all those other authors that write YA for the 14-and-over age range. Clearly, no one is reading their books and they need to quit writing.

So my question overall is: Why on earth is this writer talking about putting together a proposal for a YA novel when she doesn't read YA and hasn't kept up on the genre in years? How could you even think about writing YA fantasy and not know [info]blackholly's work? The number of adult authors writing YA is climbing every day. In some ways this is good: We got Sherman Alexie, Carl Hiaasen, Alice Hoffman, Nick Hornby, Benjamin Alire Saenz, and other authors who have remarkable talent and wrote terrific teenage voices. But on the other hand, we get people like James Patterson, who I'll discuss in Part II: Stop Biting the Hand That Feeds.

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In other news, this is just wrong. Way to ruin my childhood. Sometimes movies are best left alone. You know one thing about Hollywood I never could stomach? All the damn sequels.

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Today in a meeting, someone's cell phone went off. Instead of silencing the phone immediately, she picked it up, answered it, and proceeded to have a short conversation. In front of a very crowded room. Those of us with manners damn near had heart attacks.

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ANTM: I know this makes me unpopular, but TEAM LAUREN! (Not opposed to teams Katarzyna, Claire, or Aimee either.)

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Who wants to beta the SPN fic I'm writing for [info]heidi8's belated birthday? [info]gwendolyngrace? [info]titti? [info]emmademarais? Anyone? Bueller?



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[info]skg
2008-03-13 06:07 pm UTC (link)
You know one thing about Hollywood I never could stomach? All the damn sequels.

So. True.

Thanks for the first laugh today.

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[info]triskellita
2008-03-13 06:21 pm UTC (link)
In other news, this is just wrong.

Seriously. I enjoyed the original in all its 80s glory, don't ruin it with more Coreys and no Kiefer!

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[info]luminousmarble
2008-03-13 06:35 pm UTC (link)
3. Well, 33% of statistics are made up on the spot. (I think "good" younger readers are scarfing down a lot of adult books, too. No matter what the case, this is dumb all around.)

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:14 am UTC (link)
45% of the things your LJ friends tell you are lies, damn lies.

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[info]imaginarycircus
2008-03-13 07:11 pm UTC (link)
God. I want to smack that woman with a brick.

I've been wrestling with my own content, because at its heart the novel I am writing is about sex and specifically about female sexuality--while also being YA fantasy. I'm also concerned about having people from different socio-economic backgrounds, and different races, and different sexual orientations. However I am not writing a coke commercial where everyone holds hands and worries about their lipgloss.

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:24 am UTC (link)
Now, now, what did that brick ever do to you?

[info]zeisgeist wrote the world's best rant once, about how YA authors always take flack for writing too much sex in their books. She said that every YA author has to put thought and care into those sex scenes, and I have no doubt you are writing with thought and care, too. But. Don't let the story get bogged down in your need for diversity. I've seen too many promising YA novels go that way.

*worries about her lipgloss constantly*

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[info]imaginarycircus
2008-03-14 05:08 pm UTC (link)
Truth be told I never go anywhere without a tube of Kiehl's #1 lip balm, and if I am feeling girly a pot of lip gloss. Their china berry tastes like raspberries.

Yeah, I realized when I started changing characters racially I was taking it to far and I stopped. I'm a white girl. I'm writing about a white girl. Though there are Asian and black characters, and characters of mixed race. And gay people. And a very mild threesome.

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[info]shipchan
2008-03-13 07:24 pm UTC (link)
I've said it once and I'll say it again; people are constantly underestimating YA fiction and kids in general. Kids are not going to be warped by Valiant. If anything, kids are going to be happy to finally read something that is actually true to life (as true to life as fantasy can be). And Lost Boys sequal is a little messed but. Why are they not goth boys?!

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[info]titti
2008-03-13 07:27 pm UTC (link)
I'm home and all yours if you need someone for a beta.

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:25 am UTC (link)
OH YAY! The fic isn't done yet but I'd like to finish the first draft over the weekend. Where shall I email it?

It's Sam-centric gen. Are you all right betaing that?

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[info]titti
2008-03-14 02:32 am UTC (link)
Sam-centric, Dean-centric, it's all good. :)

annamaria.l@gmail.com

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[info]zeisgeist
2008-03-13 08:02 pm UTC (link)
I was kind of on Team Amis, but now I guess I'm pulling for Lauren myself. Either her or Anya, but Anya needs to get a personality. Oh, and I kind of like Marvita, though not so much as a person than as a model.

RE: RoL2 - I think I might actually be on Team Daisy.

RE: FoL3 - In their own words, the twins "have got to go." *shudder*

More soon -

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:29 am UTC (link)
I am not with the understanding of Anya and Marvita being attractive. But what do I know?

RoL2: Man, I just don't know. Well, I know NOT Megan, 'cause she's just a famewhore. Daisy reminds me of Janice the Muppet, but I do have to commend her actually trying to make conversation about something other than house drama on her last date with Bret. On the OTHER other hand, she doesn't even know the words to the national anthem. I'm so over Kristy Joe. I might be Team Ambre, and I like Jessica but she's got her head on too straight for this show.

FoL3: The twins? They're scary clowns. I am CRAZY about their nicknames, though. The nicknames this season are back on the upswing. I'm not on anyone's team yet.

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[info]zeisgeist
2008-03-19 02:55 pm UTC (link)
Anya on her own is plain and weird, but Anya in photographs is gorg. Same with Marvita. At least, this is what I think. :)

Megan is SUCH the fame whore. Daisy is kind of a Muppet, but I think she's one of the only ones who's really there for Bret. If Ambre is there for him, I like her too - but I can't see her actually wanting him.

FoL3: is ANYONE for real? Maybe Shy with the kickin breath. Otherwise, I have to say I'm rooting for Hotlanta.

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[info]praetorianguard
2008-03-13 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Team Katarzyna! More Russian mail-order bride comparisons! And are you watching Girlicious?

And dude, no one needs more Lost Boys. We have the old Lost Boys and it's just fine. *pokes at them*

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:34 am UTC (link)
*snicker* And really, Katarzyna looks a LOT less mail-order bride than Nata did. I think Tyra's got it in for Katarzyna. Which is too bad.

Yes, I am watching Girlicious. Team Ilisa! Also Team Carrie (and her roots).

*pokes with you*

Edited at 2008-03-14 02:35 am UTC

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[info]fashionista_35
2008-03-13 11:05 pm UTC (link)
You know, I was one of those who came at writing YA from being an adult writer. However, I'd never really quit reading YA and because I'm a junkie for keeping up with the trends and weirdnesses of the business, I was well aware of what was going on with respect to trends.

Even so, I wasn't sure how I was going to write YA—whether I was going to veer towards the sweeter end (ha! there's a laugh!) or the edgier side. Obviously, I went edgier and while ADIÓS is okay for most twelve year olds, I'd never blanket recommend ACCENT for that group. And Carmen is going to be even less so for that age.

You know, even though I came to the YA ranks from the adult ranks, it makes me really crazy when someone doesn't do their research. Maybe even more so.

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[info]plaid_slytherin
2008-03-14 02:17 am UTC (link)
I was a younger kid who was a good reader. I skipped YA *entirely.* I literally never went to that area of the library until, well, now, when I became interested in writing it. Younger kids who are good readers want to feel grown up. They're more likely, IME, to skip from Juvenile to Adult.

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[info]blpurdom
2008-03-14 02:21 am UTC (link)
Reading current YA after proposing to write a YA book? Isn't that doing it backwards? Why does everyone assume they can write YA even if they haven't read any YA since the age of 18?

Personally, I'm hoping that what I'm writing isn't considered YA purely because of the protagonist's age at the start, since he's not going to be the protagonist in every book related to this one and won't be particularly young in every book, either. In the first one he's 10-14, then there's an installment focussing on a girl who's 15-17, then back to the first boy, who's 14-18, then an adult who goes from about 24-32, then back to the first guy again, who's 18-22, then a backstory installment about his mother from about the ages of 18-39, then the first guy again from about 22-28! The first three installments are firmly YA (protagonist age-wise), but the rest--not so much. If it's still considered YA because it's your basic coming-of-age tale, fine, as long as no one throws a hissy fit about his actually behaving like someone who's 16 or 17 (or 18 or 19 or 20) when he reaches those ages, rather than a Ken doll who doesn't actually have any realistic genitalia. Because of the chief protagonist aging about 18 years it's still more of a crossover series than strictly YA, IMO (as many things are these days).

I wonder what this person would think about the protagonist's mother in Faerie Wars leaving his father for another woman, or the protagonist bascially being put into a room with the Girl of His Dreams and a big bed and being told to start creating babies. (Or about the fact that the first time he sees her she's naked and about to step into her bath.) I'm also left wondering how people see books like Summer of '42 now; there's some pretty raunchy stuff in there, and the bit where he's trying to buy condoms is hilarious. It's perfectly appropriate, IMO, for ages 14 and up; to forbid someone to read about a 15 year old losing his virginity until the reader is 18 is fairly ridiculous, IMO. Why should the most realistic books about teenagers be aimed strictly at an audience who left their teen years behind a long time ago?

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[info]cedarlibrarian
2008-03-14 02:43 am UTC (link)
Re your writing: If it helps, here's my litmus test for whether a book is YA or adult. It does not apply to all books in all situations, but it's the best I've come up with.

If a book deals with the coming-of-age experience, if it takes place in the present (regardless of the author's chosen verb tense), if the main character is focused on the events as they happen rather than reflecting on them (again, regardless of the author's chosen verb tense), then it's YA.

So that's why Prep and The Lovely Bones are adult and Looking for Alaska is YA. Of course, there are a ton of other factors, not excluding print runs and bestseller lists, but that's what I've got to offer regarding what's on the page. There are some books where it's an older teen reflecting on events of the teen past, those are YA. Ex: Story of a Girl, The Rules of Survival. And there are some books that are true crossovers, like Special Topics in Calamity Physics. No solid answers where some books are concerned.

Don't get me started on sex and drugs in YA lit. I could go all night, for want of a better description.

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[info]blpurdom
2008-03-14 02:59 am UTC (link)
The retrospective vs. right-now divide isn't a bad way to work out what's YA vs. not-YA. I'm not sure it completely works when you get to something like A Separate Peace, which is 99% retrospective, from a person somewhat removed from the events of his youth, but which is still YA, IMO. As with all rules, there will likely be exceptions.

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[info]buymeaclue
2008-03-14 01:07 pm UTC (link)
Reading current YA after proposing to write a YA book? Isn't that doing it backwards?

Yes. But in this case, per the blog entry ("...since an editor approached me about this...") it's more like reading current YA after being asked to propose to write a YA book.

Which seems to me like a reasonable thing to do.

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[info]janni
2008-03-14 02:36 am UTC (link)
Total agreement on the YA thing here. It's one of my soapboxes--adults who decide "oh, I should write a YA" who aren't YA readers and have no clue about the genre. SF/fantasy adult writers seem particularly prone to this, actually. I mean, would they go off to write a mystery if they didn't like to read them, one wonders? Why do they think it's okay for YA, then? Is there some notion it's an easy way to sell a book?

As a writer who considers YA fantasy one of my "home" genres, I can just rant on and on and on about this. If you're not here for the love, get out and let someone who is write that book instead.

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[info]cheshyre
2008-03-14 02:57 am UTC (link)
Speaking of genre YA, have you seen Cory Doctorow's forthcoming Little Brother? If so, any thoughts? [I was thinking of one of your recent posts when I blogged my own review and thus avoided making universal "should read" statements. :) ]

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[info]gwendolyngrace
2008-03-16 01:44 am UTC (link)
Hey - sorry, I didn't see this note until today. I can beta if you still need one.

Re: Nancy... I really don't know what to say. Do you know that I know her? My father and she are friends. We had lunch not too long ago, in fact, and talked a little about Harry Potter (I think she hadn't read them all at that point - don't know if she finished the series or not). And she was a little behind the times then.

Le sigh. (As for why YA, I know some reasons, but I don't feel comfortable making them public.)

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